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NPD Sales Results For June 2010

ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
DangerousDave said:
Well, if there is near double the userbase in 360 than in PS3, in US, obviously games sell better on 360.
Click to expand...

What about the rest of the world? :p
 
D

DangerousDave

Member
ULTROS! said:
What about the rest of the world? :p
Click to expand...

Where there are more 360 units, multiplatform games are sold more in 360. Where there are more PS3 units, multiplatform games are sold more in PS3.

Example:

http://www.adese.es/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43&Itemid=39
http://www.aesvi.it/cms/view.php?dir_pk=206&cms_pk=1162
http://www.consolewars.de/news/29703/aktuelle_software-verkaufscharts_aus_deutschland/
http://www.sell.fr/Les-meilleures-ventes-de-jeux,372.html

RDR sold much more in PS3, in Spain, or in Italy, or in Germany, or in France (well, in all Europe except UK), even being much worse graphically.

There are a few cases where the less sold platform have more games than the most sold platform (FF XIII in US, for example, or SF4 in UK, both sold more in PS3), but for nearly all multiplatform games, if you have double the userbase, you sell double the game.
 
S

supermackem

Banned
DangerousDave said:
Yeah, but the important is not always a single title, is the amount of exclusives.

A very few people in US bough PS3 for a single game. Not for Uncharted, only a few for MGS, only a few for LBP. But, in the end, a lot of people with 360 bought a PS3 because of the amount of exclusive games. Not for a single one, but because each interesting exclusive game was a small push towards the shop.

And I don't see that trend for Microsoft, in the future. They have the big Kinect card, but out of there, I don't see what games are offering for a current non-360 user to buy one.
Click to expand...

Can i have tonights lotto numbers you seem to know the future.:D
 
S

supermackem

Banned
Kagari said:
And it really depends on the game itself.
Click to expand...

Yep take rdr in the uk where the base is still in favour of 360 it was sold out everywhere on ps3 but sold more on 360. Or ff13 that sold alot better on ps3 here also for some reason ssf4 sold more on ps3 when nearly all other third party games sell better on 360. I would say the uk is the best measuring stick it use to be a very very pro sony market 360 has sold very well here and ps3 is now catching up due to slim and price cuts £429 hell no sony.:lol
 
K

Karma

Banned
DangerousDave said:
Yeah, but the important is not always a single title, is the amount of exclusives.

A very few people in US bough PS3 for a single game. Not for Uncharted, only a few for MGS, only a few for LBP. But, in the end, a lot of people with 360 bought a PS3 because of the amount of exclusive games. Not for a single one, but because each interesting exclusive game was a small push towards the shop.

And I don't see that trend for Microsoft, in the future. They have the big Kinect card, but out of there, I don't see what games are offering for a current non-360 user to buy one.
Click to expand...

Every 360 exclusive that has been made in the last 4 years?
 
S

szaromir

Banned
I remember thatway back in 2007 it was a popular theory on GAF that MS was pulling out of console business because they had no games. Fast forward 3 years later and we have the same arguments.:lol

Were PW numbers posted after all?
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Do JRPGs tend to sell more on the PS3 or 360? Because despite the lack of JRPGs on PS360, this is what we only know:

FFXIII - Definitely sold more on the PS3, which was expected
Star Ocean 4 - Sold more on 360 and it had a year of exclusivity. The Japanese 360 version of SO4 sold 200k whereas the PS3 version (released after 1 year) sold 150k.
Eternal Sonata - Sold more on 360, similar to what happened on SO4.
Tales of Vesperia - Not sure about this but the PS3 version is pretty much close to the LTD of 360 Vesperia (300k+ alone on Japan, but 360 version is 400k+ I think).
Cross Edge - Uh...

How did Resonance of Fate perform on the PS3 and 360?
 
T

Takao

Banned
chandoog said:
Man . seriously ?

even Crisis Core did 300k+ if i remember correctly.
Click to expand...

Dissidia's first week was 130k last August as well.

That said, neither of those games have the market Peace Walker is currently in. Neither of those Square Enix titles had to compete with mainstream hardware bundles, nor did they have to compete with the fragmented userbase that doesn't need UMD to buy games (ie. 1000/2000/3000 owners buying off the PSN, along with Go owners). Sadly at the end of the day, Crisis Core is a prequel to one of the best selling Final Fantasy titles, and Peace Walker is a sequel to the worst selling numbered Metal Gear Solid game. Peace Walker also had the not so enyvious position of being released after the worst Metal Gear Solid entry.

Even with that rationale, unless it did 100,000 units on PSN, they're really poor results.
 
S

Subitai

Member
No hype for Dance Central?

That's the real hit coming this fall on 360. Why can't microsoft bundle kinect with that?


Anyway, the lack of return on first party games except for a few franchises is the reason MS has gone on more with creating IPs for other developers to work on. Sony is just burning money funding tons of 1st party games with thin margins to niche owners like in GAF. MS is looking at Nintendo with a smaller developer base raking in the ginormous dough on stuff like Mario Kart and Wii Fit. They're trying to find their handful of key designers, outside their company if not within, that will reproduce the same magic and just work on a few big budget action titles rather than trying to fund 3 big budget 1st party action/shooter/rpgs every quarter. Why drag on 3rd party partners who are doing those games fine anyway? What is the point of making 5 games that are going to struggle into 500k-1 mil range and do virtually nothing to push hardware when you can focus on 1 shooter that will do 3.5 mil and up move boxes like crazy? If they are going to fund something new and risky that is big budget, it is going to be with a proven developer who will get whatever they need to secure a higher console demand title.

PS3 Gaf, you better start getting everyone you know to switch to PS3 and start buying all those other first party games besides GoW3. Otherwise, Sony is gonna be forced to follow Nintendo's lead the way MS is, since right now the numbers seem to be supporting MS's strategy.
 
S

supermackem

Banned
Subitai said:
No hype for Dance Central?

That's the real hit coming this fall on 360. Why can't microsoft bundle kinect with that?


Anyway, the lack of return on first party games except for a few franchises is the reason MS has gone on more with creating IPs for other developers to work on. Sony is just burning money funding tons of 1st party games with thin margins to niche owners like in GAF. MS is looking at Nintendo with a smaller developer base raking in the ginormous dough on stuff like Mario Kart and Wii Fit. They're trying to find their handful of key designers, outside their company if not within, that will reproduce the same magic and just work on a few big budget action titles rather than trying to fund 3 big budget 1st party action/shooter/rpgs every quarter. Why drag on 3rd party partners who doing those games fine anyway? What is the point of making 5 games that are going to struggle into 500k-1 mil range and do virtually nothing to push hardware when you can focus on 1 shooter that will do 3.5 mil and up move boxes like crazy? If they are going to fund something new and risky that is big budget, it is going to be with a proven developer who will get whatever they need to secure a higher console demand title.

PS3 Gaf, you better start getting everyone you know to switch to PS3 and start buying all those other first party games besides GoW3. Otherwise, Sony is gonna be forced to follow Nintendo's lead the way MS is, since right now the numbers seem to be supporting MS's strategy.
Click to expand...

It always makes me sad at some of the first party numbers on ps3 in the usa. Most dont seem to sell as many as they should.
 
Paracelsus

Paracelsus

Member
ULTROS! said:
Do JRPGs tend to sell more on the PS3 or 360? Because despite the lack of JRPGs on PS360, this is what we only know:

FFXIII - Definitely sold more on the PS3, which was expected
Star Ocean 4 - Sold more on 360 and it had a year of exclusivity. The Japanese 360 version of SO4 sold 200k whereas the PS3 version (released after 1 year) sold 150k.
Eternal Sonata - Sold more on 360, similar to what happened on SO4.
Tales of Vesperia - Not sure about this but the PS3 version is pretty much close to the LTD of 360 Vesperia (300k+ alone on Japan, but 360 version is 400k+ I think).
Cross Edge - Uh...

How did Resonance of Fate perform on the PS3 and 360?
Click to expand...

Vesperia 360 is not close to 400k, it's probably closer to 350k combining all three markets (a regular NPD thread poster with sources said it's "> 120k in USA"). I'm undershooting Europe but it was #35 in the individual UK chart for the first week, then disappeared from the face of the earth. It's safe to say it tanked hard.

We ain't got numbers for RoF in UK/USA, but in Japan PS3 version is at about 185k while x360 version is below 40k.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
Takao said:
Dissidia's first week was 130k last August as well.

That said, neither of those games have the market Peace Walker is currently in. Neither of those Square Enix titles had to compete with mainstream hardware bundles, nor did they have to compete with the fragmented userbase that doesn't need UMD to buy games (ie. 1000/2000/3000 owners buying off the PSN, along with Go owners). Sadly at the end of the day, Crisis Core is a prequel to one of the best selling Final Fantasy titles, and Peace Walker is a sequel to the worst selling numbered Metal Gear Solid game. Peace Walker also had the not so enyvious position of being released after the worst Metal Gear Solid entry.

Even with that rationale, unless it did 100,000 units on PSN, they're really poor results.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by mainstream?

Dissidia had a bundle seemed quite popular to if I remember correctly.
 
L

legend166

Member
BishopLamont said:
I'm leaning towards that way too, but I have faith in Iwata's magic.
Click to expand...


I don't have faith that Iwata's magic in wooing 3rd parties (which is relatively poor) can overcome their innate inability to make a reasonable business decision without someone shoving hats of money at them.
 
T

Takao

Banned
TruePrime said:
What do you mean by mainstream?

Dissidia had a bundle seemed quite popular to if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

Dissidia's bundle was GameStop exclusive. Peace Walker had a general bundle in every retailer, as well as a GameStop exclusive (that one could only get by preordering).
 
D

DMeisterJ

Banned
Subitai said:
No hype for Dance Central?

That's the real hit coming this fall on 360. Why can't microsoft bundle kinect with that?


Anyway, the lack of return on first party games except for a few franchises is the reason MS has gone on more with creating IPs for other developers to work on. Sony is just burning money funding tons of 1st party games with thin margins to niche owners like in GAF. MS is looking at Nintendo with a smaller developer base raking in the ginormous dough on stuff like Mario Kart and Wii Fit. They're trying to find their handful of key designers, outside their company if not within, that will reproduce the same magic and just work on a few big budget action titles rather than trying to fund 3 big budget 1st party action/shooter/rpgs every quarter. Why drag on 3rd party partners who are doing those games fine anyway? What is the point of making 5 games that are going to struggle into 500k-1 mil range and do virtually nothing to push hardware when you can focus on 1 shooter that will do 3.5 mil and up move boxes like crazy? If they are going to fund something new and risky that is big budget, it is going to be with a proven developer who will get whatever they need to secure a higher console demand title.

PS3 Gaf, you better start getting everyone you know to switch to PS3 and start buying all those other first party games besides GoW3. Otherwise, Sony is gonna be forced to follow Nintendo's lead the way MS is, since right now the numbers seem to be supporting MS's strategy.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the upcoming list war:

??

I'm not sure if you're only referring to America, or if you're referring to WW, but I'm going to assume you mean worldwide because there aren't a ton of games on any of the platforms that have done 3.5 million in NA... In that case, you should really know facts before spewing nonsense. Lots of first-party titles from Sony's stables have done extremely well and well above 500-1million (and have not struggled to do so) Resistance 1+2 Uncharted 1 +2, Heavy Rain, inFamous, God of War 3, Motorstorm 1 +2, Killzone 2, etc have all crossed 1 million, with many crossing into two million (Killzone 2, Motorstorm 1, Uncharted 1, God of War 3, Resistance: Fall of Man), and a handful into 3 million (I know Uncharted 2 is one, we haven't gotten an update on God of War 3, and of course GT5: P which is actually in the 4 millions). So what are you talking about?
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
DMeisterJ said:
Sorry for the upcoming list war:

??

I'm not sure if you're only referring to America, or if you're referring to WW, but I'm going to assume you mean worldwide because there aren't a ton of games on any of the platforms that have done 3.5 million in NA... In that case, you should really know facts before spewing nonsense. Lots of first-party titles from Sony's stables have done extremely well and well above 500-1million (and have not struggled to do so) Resistance 1+2 Uncharted 1 +2, Heavy Rain, inFamous, God of War 3, Motorstorm 1 +2, Killzone 2, etc have all crossed 1 million, with many crossing into two million (Killzone 2, Motorstorm 1, Uncharted 1, God of War 3, Resistance: Fall of Man), and a handful into 3 million (I know Uncharted 2 is one, we haven't gotten an update on God of War 3, and of course GT5: P which is actually in the 4 millions). So what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, there are so many wrongs in one post that I cant even...
Anyways, you have a lot of catch-up to do. A lot of games you cite as above x mill have done it with extensive help of bundle, and getting this kind of news 6/12/18 month after release does not really do them judgement either.
 
J

JasoNsider

Member
Takao said:
. Peace Walker also had the not so enyvious position of being released after the worst Metal Gear Solid entry.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. This really was the reason I couldn't even be arsed to care about it even after being a long-time follower of the series for so long now.
 
D

DMeisterJ

Banned
V_Arnold said:
Jesus Christ, there are so many wrongs in one post that I cant even...
Anyways, you have a lot of catch-up to do. A lot of games you cite as above x mill have done it with extensive help of bundle, and getting this kind of news 6/12/18 month after release does not really do them judgement either.
Click to expand...

What does it matter how long it takes a game to sell x million units? And yes, lots of games get bundled to help sales, very many games. Most first party games are bundled at some point in time with the hardware in one of the three regions for however long the console maker feels the need to. I didn't post that because it happens to virtually all first party games at some point in time in their life-cycle, and the bundled games are always counted as shipped units from the console makers, and we have no clue how much a game has sold bundled, so it's doesn't make sense to talk about that.

The point of the post I quoted was that lots of Sony first party games struggle to do a million, and the poster was wrong. The stipulation about bundled units (which again, happen to tons of first party games across all consoles) or how long it takes was not in the post I quoted and hold no relevance to my posted answer.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
JasoNsider said:
Absolutely. This really was the reason I couldn't even be arsed to care about it even after being a long-time follower of the series for so long now.
Click to expand...
The only situation where this could have had an actual impact on its sales was if it was a PS3 game in the first place.

The system that PW is on had 99% to do with the fact that it failed.
 
J

jcm

Member
Do we know how many PW bundles there were? The bump in PSP hardware makes me think there were quite a few. The PSP was did about 15K per week in May, and about 24K per week in June.

I seems likely that bundles + PSN sales would put PW in the top 20 (100K+), but not the top 10. Still a bomb, but maybe not one for the ages.

JasoNsider said:
Absolutely. This really was the reason I couldn't even be arsed to care about it even after being a long-time follower of the series for so long now.
Click to expand...

You guys are of course free to like what you want, but don't pretend that your opinion of MGS4 is some kind of gospel. The game was widely critically praised, and won lots of GOTY awards.
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
jcm said:
Do we know how many PW bundles there were? The bump in PSP hardware makes me think there were quite a few. The PSP was did about 15K per week in May, and about 24K per week in June.

I seems likely that bundles + PSN sales would put PW in the top 20 (100K+), but not the top 10. Still a bomb, but maybe not one for the ages.
Click to expand...
Even at 100k counting bundles and PSN sales Peace Walker is an epic bomb no matter how you look at it.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
I definitely agree; the West has always been the strongest territory for the franchise and for it to completely crater like this is worrisome. I really want to know who made the ultimate decision to put the game on the PSP; I doubt their worst-case scenario got this low.
 
E

El-Suave

Member
V_Arnold said:
A lot of games you cite as above x mill have done it with extensive help of bundle, and getting this kind of news 6/12/18 month after release does not really do them judgement either.
Click to expand...

At least Sony will be leaving this generation with some new IPs that they have grown and that they can continue to support and grow.
It doesn't really matter how you generated your sale on the predecessor when you bring the next game out. Even if you leave install base growth out, more people are likely to buy the sequels sooner because the first games simply were pretty great. Of course that isn't the case for any first party Sony game - but I wouldn't qualify games like Uncharted and Infamous (if the sequel is good) as failures.

I could have sworn a few years ago it was all about owning IPs - that hasn't changed all that much! If one thinks about what franchises that they own and that they want to support, Microsoft will leave this generation with, at least I can't think of many. They're leaving with marketshare, sure. That'll guarantee that no one jumps on the third party exclusive train with Sony any time soon - but that's about all that does.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Ridley327 said:
I definitely agree; the West has always been the strongest territory for the franchise and for it to completely crater like this is worrisome. I really want to know who made the ultimate decision to put the game on the PSP; I doubt their worst-case scenario got this low.
Click to expand...

IIRC Kojima did because he wanted a younger, larger audience to be able to play it. It worked out in Japan, everywhere else, not so much.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Did it really work out that well in Japan? It's hitting the same sales ceiling in Japan that previous entries have hit. It suggests that there really isn't anyone buying MGS games over there other than the fans, which I don't think is what Kojima or Konami would have wanted to happen.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Ridley327 said:
Did it really work out that well in Japan? It's hitting the same sales ceiling in Japan that previous entries have hit. It suggests that there really isn't anyone buying MGS games over there other than the fans, which I don't think is what Kojima or Konami would have wanted to happen.
Click to expand...

6. [PSP] Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker - 727,823

As of June 27. I don't think MGS4 managed to do that much there.
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Kagari said:
IIRC Kojima did because he wanted a younger, larger audience to be able to play it. It worked out in Japan, everywhere else, not so much.
Click to expand...
It didn't really work out in Japan. The situation with Peace Walker reminds of the situation with Valkyria Chronicles 2 in some ways.
 
N

neutralgamer02

Member
Chris1964 said:
Even at 100k counting bundles and PSN sales Peace Walker is an epic bomb no matter how you look at it.
Click to expand...

I always thought psp bundles were included in the sale figures. If true, that would make the numbers even more dismal.
 
S

Spiegel

Member
neutralgamer02 said:
I always thought psp bundles were included in the sale figures. If true, that would make the numbers even more dismal.
Click to expand...

Media Create/Famitsu (Japan) - includes hardware bundles
NPD (US) - not includes hardware bundles
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Kagari said:
6. [PSP] Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker - 727,823

As of June 27. I don't think MGS4 managed to do that much there.
Click to expand...

For comparison's sake, MGS2 hit 798k, MGS3 hit 819k (without MGS3:S sales added) and the last LTD number that I could pull up for MGS4 had it at 686k in 2008.

Peace Walker is definitely showing some MGS3-esque legs, but it's still going to hit the same wall. I'd have to imagine that Konami has been aware of this wall for a while now, which is why Kojima ended up appealing to the MH crowd in the first place.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
El-Suave said:
At least Sony will be leaving this generation with some new IPs that they have grown and that they can continue to support and grow.
It doesn't really matter how you generated your sale on the predecessor when you bring the next game out. Even if you leave install base growth out, more people are likely to buy the sequels sooner because the first games simply were pretty great. Of course that isn't the case for any first party Sony game - but I wouldn't qualify games like Uncharted and Infamous (if the sequel is good) as failures.
Click to expand...

Interesting side note. Game Informer had their top 50 hot games from E3, and two Sony games were in the top 10. Little Big Planet 2 was number 10 and the second game was higher at number four. Behind Portal 2 (1), Dead Space 2 (2), Zelda Wii (3). That game at number four wasn't God of War PSP (18) or Gran Turismo 5 (35), It was Infamous 2. I was shocked to see it was so high on the list. Sounds like Sucker Punch is going all out for the sequel, and I can't wait to play it!
 
S

Spiegel

Member
Ridley327 said:
For comparison's sake, MGS2 hit 798k, MGS3 hit 819k (without MGS3:S sales added) and the last LTD number that I could pull up for MGS4 had it at 686k in 2008.

Peace Walker is definitely showing some MGS3-esque legs, but it's still going to hit the same wall.
Click to expand...

Well, it's still in the top 3 weekly PSN sales. Maybe it has topped 800k already

MAYBE
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
03/09/98 [PS1] Metal Gear Solid (Konami) - 316.833 / 705.376
24/06/99 [PS1] Metal Gear Solid: Integral (Konami) - 40.032 / 98.537
27/04/00 [PS1] Metal Gear Solid: Integral [Konami the Best] (Konami) - / 43.159
26/07/07 [PS1] Metal Gear Solid [Metal Gear 20th Anniversary] (Konami) - / 5.488

29/11/01 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (Konami) - 456.747 / 798.185
12/09/02 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty [Mega Hits] (Konami) - 3.664 / 42.160
19/12/02 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance (Konami) - 64.867 / 147.561
21/10/04 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance [Konami Dendou Selection] (Konami) - / 47.993
21/10/04 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty [Konami Dendou Selection] (Konami) - / 37.595

16/12/04 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (Konami) - 487.156 / 819.807
22/12/05 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (Konami) - 73.337 / 133.339
26/07/07 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid Collection [Metal Gear 20th Anniversary] (Konami) - 24.310 / 52.679
26/07/07 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater [Metal Gear 20th Anniversary] (Konami) - / 25.809
29/11/07 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater [Playstation 2 the Best] (Konami) - / 62.095
05/11/09 [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater [Konami Dendou Selection] (Konami) - / 23.933

12/06/08 [PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (Konami) - 476.334 / 706.461
18/06/09 [PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots [PlayStation 3 the Best] (Konami) - 3.672 / 146.827

29/04/10 [PSP] Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (Konami) - 446.133 / 727.823
 
R

Ridley327

Member
That detailed list definitely helps, Chris. As far as Japan is concerned, it certainly leads creedence to my theory that the series hasn't been gaining a significant number of new fans between installments.
 
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