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[BishopLamont]

Corruption sold 218100 back in September 2007. It was released at the end of August, too.

That's not too far from what Other M did, it might have not revived the series like Nintendo would hope, but its not the flop that some people are making it out to be.

 

[Owzers]

I don't think the Dead Rising franchise has anywhere to go if they don't radically change the game design. The premise has wide appeal, but execution is so niche that i can't imagine most of the people who buy the game end up enjoying it.

 

[dolemite]

Could somebody help me do the math correctly:

It also added that Xbox 360 software sales were up 33 per cent to $85 million off the back of Halo: Reach

With 3.3 million copies sold at, say, 60$ per copy, shouldn't we see at least 60*3.3mill = $198 million just from Halo Reach alone? I mean the revenue was $200 million world wide on the first day alone, with the bulk coming from the US.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Nintendo should just release another 2D Metroidvania on consoles.

If NSMB have told them anything it's that people often don't see handheld and console entries elope.

 

[BishopLamont]

Oops nevermind.

 

[brain_stew]

I guess my question is one of who exactly is a Wii HD or Wii + desirable too at this point? If I want to watch hi def movies, have a decent experience online, I'll stick with my PS3. Heck if I want advanced waggle I'll just go buy a Move kit. Xbox 360 owners aren't going to go abandon their friends and the advanced online network to go buy a Wii system with better graphics. Love or hate Xbox Live, MS have done a pretty tremendous job building up a community which really doesn't want to go anywhere else. Current casual owners of the Wii won't go buy a new system just for better graphics. There has to be a separate hook involved. Nintendo needs the "next big thing" to launch with whatever console they bring out. Even then, the jury is still out if that even matters outside of Nintendo products.

No, they'll buy it for Nintendo software, just as they bought a Wii and NDS for the exclusive software they offered.

What makes you think that if Nintendo can't come up with some "hook" by late 2011 that they can manage one by 2013? Motion control is something they were researching for years before the Wii ever released and the solution they used not being technically capable of delivering the vision that they sold didn't matter all that much in the end anyway. What makes you think developing this new "hook" for an extra couple years is going to make any difference in the marketplace, they've already proven that if an idea can catch the imagination of the public it doesn't matter if the technology isn't upto scratch. Is it really worth sacrificing all the momentum and mindshare built up by the Wii's success just to let this "hook" bake for another couple of years?

What makes you think they can come up with some industry changing "hook" anyway? What the hell could it be, any ideas? Both motion control and a S3D screen were very obvious additions that were heavily rumoured for a long time and have plenty previous examples of attempts at integrating them into the gaming experience. Its probably safe to assume this potential "hook" isn't something new at all, motion control and S3D gaming certainly weren't so why assume this new "hook" will be? In that case, what the hell could it be?

 

[starok]

Corruption sold 218100 back in September 2007. It was released at the end of August, too.

No corruption sold 218k in august 2010 with only a few days of sale.
Then in september it sold 167K.

That's 385k for corruption versus 173k for other m for about the same time period.

Other m really did poorly.

 

[Guevara]

Corruption sold 218100 back in September 2007. It was released at the end of August, too.

Metroid: Other M: 173,000 (.) August 31, 2010

Metroid Prime: 250,000 (about a week of sales) - November 17, 2002
Metroid Prime 2: 167,000? (?) - November 15, 2004
Metroid Prime 3: 218,000 (about a week of sales) - August 27, 2007

Metroid Fusion: 199,723 (?) - November 17, 2002
Metroid: Zero Mission: 151,807 (?) - February 9, 2004

 

[cooljeanius]

I think it may be important to remember that Other M's launch day was August 31, so maybe there are a few thousand units sold left forgotten in the September ranking (?).

No, this came up in the August thread, Other M's sales are entirely within the September tracking period.

 

[BishopLamont]

Oh dang, flop indeed.

Time for NSM(?).

 

[Ridley327]

I don't think the Dead Rising franchise has anywhere to go if they don't radically change the game design. The premise has wide appeal, but execution is so niche that i can't imagine most of the people who buy the game end up enjoying it.

They fixed the biggest complaints around the original (save files and the survivor AI) and made the game, as a whole, a lot easier to get into. I don't know what else they can do without removing what makes Dead Rising Dead Rising. Messing around with the time limit and/or segmenting the gameplay further is just going to lead to a higher quality Chop 'Til You Drop.

 

[KJ_Wii]

Re: DR2's "low" sales: I don't really think it's the type of game people have to have on day one, like a Halo or a CoD. The month ended Thursday so it didn't even get a weekend's sales in; I'd be surprised if it didn't add at least another 150k over the three days this tracking stops just short of.

I think it may be important to remember that Other M's launch day was August 31, so maybe there are a few thousand units sold left forgotten in the September ranking (?).

For comparison, if this old data I found is correct, Corruption sold 218k copies in four days in August 2007.

I don't understand why people still don't get how NPD's financial "months" work.

September covered August 29th-October 2nd. Metroid was entirely within September and had its first five weeks of sales during the September NPD data. It's going to fall off a cliff for October, not that we'll ever really know. No excuses there, sorry. And DR2 did get its first Saturday sales in, though not Sunday, but given the front-loaded nature of just about every HD game not named Call of Duty it's not going to shoot through the roof in October, would be doing well just to match.

The month always starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday. March, June, September, and December are 5-week months, the rest are 4-week months, except every few years they make January a 5-week month too to take care of that pesky extra day each year.

Of course, that's assuming Nintendo will leap frog the 360 and PS3 (rather than just released a boosted version of them) AND will fix whatever third party policy problems they currently have.

The "third party policy problems" are that third parties outright do not like Nintendo and will come up with any excuse to not work with them.

N64/GC - cartridges/discs are too small. Didn't stop them from bending over backwards to make sure 360 got every game, and for the first couple years a lot of exclusives and definitive versions. And had nothing to do with the Wii.

Wii - not powerful enough to fulfill their creative vision. Of course the gen before everything was on the weakest console with the biggest userbase, we'll just ignore all that.

Or how about the age-old excuse of not wanting to compete with Nintendo-made games? Never mind that for the first 2-3 years the Wii's third-party software sales were outpacing each other platform, up until the sheer lack of any third-party releases at all sent that stat off a cliff. Or the fact that early on Nintendo intentionally left huge gaps in its first-party release schedule to let the third-party games step up, and no one ever did.

No wait, then the excuse was that it was too hard to port titles to the Wii from 360/PS3, which doesn't explain why there were so many PS2/Xbox-only games that skipped the GC last gen, or why there have been so many high-publicity exclusives for the PSP, pretty much the only system with worse third-party sales than the Wii.

The only exclusive big mainline third-party game that I can think of that Nintendo has gotten in the last three generations of handhelds and consoles is Dragon Quest. That's about all the evidence you really need.

I'm sure with 3DS and whatever Nintendo does for their next console we'll hear a new round of excuses for the same old story - third-parties do not want to work with Nintendo, and haven't since the SNES era. I don't know what (or if) Nintendo can do to change that. 3DS is looking better initially but we'll have to see what's actually delivered and whether everyone will jump ship the instant a viable competitor is announced.

 

[Draft]

Thank God.

Give Metroid back to Retro, please.

 

[Busaiku]

That's not too far from what Other M did, it might have not revived the series like Nintendo would hope, but its not the flop that some people are making it out to be.

Corruption also had a better EU showing.

 

[Brazil]

I don't understand why people still don't get how NPD's financial "months" work.

Seriously? You don't understand why some people don't know random details about sales-age?

Geez.

Thanks for clarifying, though.

 

[V_Arnold]

Kj_Wii: Ouch.
Nice name btw.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I don't understand why people still don't get how NPD's financial "months" work.

September covered August 29th-October 2nd. Metroid was entirely within September and had its first five weeks of sales during the September NPD data. It's going to fall off a cliff for October, not that we'll ever really know. No excuses there, sorry. And DR2 did get its first Saturday sales in, though not Sunday, but given the front-loaded nature of just about every HD game not named Call of Duty it's not going to shoot through the roof in October, would be doing well just to match.

The month always starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday. March, June, September, and December are 5-week months, the rest are 4-week months, except every few years they make January a 5-week month too to take care of that pesky extra day each year.

Wow, I admit that this was a bit harsh, but you seem like a very level headed user.

Hmm, seems like you quoted someone else and I guess I'll read it because surely it will be a good, intelligent, insightful, and-

The "third party policy problems" are that third parties outright do not like Nintendo and will come up with any excuse to not work with them.

N64/GC - cartridges/discs are too small. Didn't stop them from bending over backwards to make sure 360 got every game, and for the first couple years a lot of exclusives and definitive versions. And had nothing to do with the Wii.

Wii - not powerful enough to fulfill their creative vision. Of course the gen before everything was on the weakest console with the biggest userbase, we'll just ignore all that.

Or how about the age-old excuse of not wanting to compete with Nintendo-made games? Never mind that for the first 2-3 years the Wii's third-party software sales were outpacing each other platform, up until the sheer lack of any third-party releases at all sent that stat off a cliff. Or the fact that early on Nintendo intentionally left huge gaps in its first-party release schedule to let the third-party games step up, and no one ever did.

No wait, then the excuse was that it was too hard to port titles to the Wii from 360/PS3, which doesn't explain why there were so many PS2/Xbox-only games that skipped the GC last gen, or why there have been so many high-publicity exclusives for the PSP, pretty much the only system with worse third-party sales than the Wii.

The only exclusive big mainline third-party game that I can think of that Nintendo has gotten in the last three generations of handhelds and consoles is Dragon Quest. That's about all the evidence you really need.

I'm sure with 3DS and whatever Nintendo does for their next console we'll hear a new round of excuses for the same old story - third-parties do not want to work with Nintendo, and haven't since the SNES era. I don't know what (or if) Nintendo can do to change that. 3DS is looking better initially but we'll have to see what's actually delivered and whether everyone will jump ship the instant a viable competitor is announced.

Oh My God!!!!!!!!

 

[BishopLamont]

I don't understand why people still don't get how NPD's financial "months" work.

September covered August 29th-October 2nd. Metroid was entirely within September and had its first five weeks of sales during the September NPD data. It's going to fall off a cliff for October, not that we'll ever really know. No excuses there, sorry. And DR2 did get its first Saturday sales in, though not Sunday, but given the front-loaded nature of just about every HD game not named Call of Duty it's not going to shoot through the roof in October, would be doing well just to match.

The month always starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday. March, June, September, and December are 5-week months, the rest are 4-week months, except every few years they make January a 5-week month too to take care of that pesky extra day each year.




The "third party policy problems" are that third parties outright do not like Nintendo and will come up with any excuse to not work with them.

N64/GC - cartridges/discs are too small. Didn't stop them from bending over backwards to make sure 360 got every game, and for the first couple years a lot of exclusives and definitive versions. And had nothing to do with the Wii.

Wii - not powerful enough to fulfill their creative vision. Of course the gen before everything was on the weakest console with the biggest userbase, we'll just ignore all that.

Or how about the age-old excuse of not wanting to compete with Nintendo-made games? Never mind that for the first 2-3 years the Wii's third-party software sales were outpacing each other platform, up until the sheer lack of any third-party releases at all sent that stat off a cliff. Or the fact that early on Nintendo intentionally left huge gaps in its first-party release schedule to let the third-party games step up, and no one ever did.

No wait, then the excuse was that it was too hard to port titles to the Wii from 360/PS3, which doesn't explain why there were so many PS2/Xbox-only games that skipped the GC last gen, or why there have been so many high-publicity exclusives for the PSP, pretty much the only system with worse third-party sales than the Wii.

The only exclusive big mainline third-party game that I can think of that Nintendo has gotten in the last three generations of handhelds and consoles is Dragon Quest. That's about all the evidence you really need.

I'm sure with 3DS and whatever Nintendo does for their next console we'll hear a new round of excuses for the same old story - third-parties do not want to work with Nintendo, and haven't since the SNES era. I don't know what (or if) Nintendo can do to change that. 3DS is looking better initially but we'll have to see what's actually delivered and whether everyone will jump ship the instant a viable competitor is announced.

It didn't matter that third parties neglected Nintendo's consoles because they weren't as dominate and development costs weren't sky high like it is now. They can't to afford to miss out a whole 'nother generation of making money because they failed to capitalize on the leading console again.

Nintendo is going to be around for a long time but most third parties won't if they remain short sighted.

 

[Owzers]

They fixed the biggest complaints around the original (save files and the survivor AI) and made the game, as a whole, a lot easier to get into. I don't know what else they can do without removing what makes Dead Rising Dead Rising. Messing around with the time limit and/or segmenting the gameplay further is just going to lead to a higher quality Chop 'Til You Drop.

If they want to keep dead rising dead rising, then they shouldn't expect it to sell a lot of copies. If they are okay with that, then i am as well. Dead Rising in it's current form is a chore. People like chores, just not a ton. People grind for achievements and farm enemies in FFXIII for trophy items. But the main gameplay in Dead Rising 2 will never catch on. A weapon creation system where the weapon breaks after twenty hits is not fun, and the solution to " go back and make another one" is something only a fan will ever say. I'd have special weapons never break. They'd instead level up along with you. What good is a world full of zombies if you are only saving your fun weapons for bosses?

The time limit has to go. Even if i have plenty of time to get somewhere, i still feel like the game is hounding me. I'd replace it with a branching decision-based path. All paths lead to an "ending". This would enhance replayablity the same way failing and restarting the game does, except it wouldn't be incredibly stupid. You could have it so that certain events are time based though, you have X amount of time to save a survivor etc. I'd change a lot more, i'd have psycho fights that were more about interactive fun than just brute force meleeing and healing. I'd have survivors who could help you and wouldn't die in one or two hits to a random psycho.

The best thing about Dead Rising is the set-up. Zombies in a mall, lots of items, psychos, potential for a crazy story, survivors, action, etc. But the execution in it's current form takes all the potential fun and tells you " well, you have to work for it"

 

[duckroll]

Uh oh, is this the direction the thread is headed in now?

 

[apana]

Thank God.

Give Metroid back to Retro, please.

I have a feeling Retro is going to be working on Donkey Kong for a while. Three games at the very least.

 

[BishopLamont]

I have a feeling Retro is going to be working on Donkey Kong for a while. Three games at the very least.

I think that depends on how well it does.

 

[Regulus Tera]

No corruption sold 218k in august 2010 with only a few days of sale.
Then in september it sold 167K.

That's 385k for corruption versus 173k for other m for about the same time period.

Other m really did poorly.

i feel strangely happy at being wrong

 

[CadetMahoney]

looks like xbox 360 is taken over the wii in sales for good now..i was not quite convinced for the past few months the 360 outsold the wii..but its now confirmed in my book that wii is and will never surpass the 360 in terms of hardware sales in any month again this gen.

As for Sony's Move...ugh.. i just dont know how i feel about it being successful or not...

corp PR Yurop figures to the rescue?

 

[BishopLamont]

i feel strangely happy at being wrong

You're an ass.

 

[NHale]

because EA branded Madden 11 as a PS3 exclusive during NFL games

EA did the exact same partnership with Sony in the FIFA 11 ads. Just watch the official US ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhnjwymz5L0

I don't know. But if you automatically assume FIFA sold the same on both platform, you also have to assume one of the following:
a) there's a higher probability that a PS3 owner would buy any football (soccer) game
b) there's a higher probability that a PS3 owner would buy any sports game
c) there's a higher probability that a PS3 owner would buy any multiplatform game

Unless you provide data to support one of these claims, I'd stick to the assumption that FIFA sales aren't even across the two platforms.

Where did I say it sold more on PS3, Wii or 360? You are the one taking conclusions based on the assumption that because of the userbase in the US it's going to sell proportionally more on the 360 and I gave a example of a recent sports game that clearly showed otherwise.

 

[Celine]

[...] third-parties do not want to work with Nintendo, and haven't since the SNES era.[...]

That's true, publisher will always prefer Playstation business model ( Sony, MS ) over the NES one ( Nintendo, Sega of old ).
The only way I can see third parties actively support a Nintendo platform is if it is the only viable option to make money.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It won't. They can release a box in late 2011 that can be sold at a profit at $299 and comfortably surpass the graphics in 360 games with a minimal R & D investment. It'll get excellent third party support by default because moving over PS3 and 360 titles will be incredibly cheap. If the 3DS is convincing publishers to commission high profile and exclusive core content then the Wii 2 will be able to convince them to crap out a cheap port, its basically free cash.

So all the titles that are really driving the PS3 and 360 will be available on Nintendo's system, only in 1080p, with better textures, better performance and full tessellation support. Add to that Nintendo's first party content and the best motion controls in the industry (they should be able to surpass Move by then, they've obviously invested in the technology) and you've got more than enough to hit a comfortable 20m userbase before the PS4 and Xbox3 are even on the market. They can worry about the expanded audience from there.

I agree with this completely (in fact I recall posting in a topic shortly after E3 about the likelihood of a WiiHD showing up late 2011 / early 2012 and catching Sony / MS napping as they desperately try and drag this gen out as long as possible).

I just don't get why people are posting in this topic with 'NINTENDO ARE DOOMED!' pronouncements and the assumption that because Nintendo went 'lo-fi' with the Wii that nintendo must therefore always go 'lo-fi'.

The question is does Nintendo have enough pull to get the current people who own PS3 and 360 systems to upgrade? Personally I have zero interest in any Nintendo console (even one more powerful for a small time) until they fix their online situation, their storage situation for download games, and the ability to transfer download games from one platform to another.

THOSE are the things that are most important to you as a gamer?

Well, okay then.

Besides, Nintendo have stated in the past if they are going to release a new console it has to be something new besides graphics inside the box. However based on what happened with the Wii it makes it tough for me to get excited about anything new in the console space they'll cover.

I'm pretty sure the 'statement' you are referring to was Iwatas description of why they chose to make the Wii as they did, not official Nintendo policy from here on out. Feel free to link me something to correct me on that.

I'd also say Iwata made the exact right call.

The videogames industry isn't exactly healthy at the moment; lots of devs folding, Sony AND MS haemorraghing cash at an alarming rate, fewer and fewer titles in the top ten with what we would consider good sales, and an increasing amount of consolidation of titles into fewer and fewer genres by fewer and fewer publishers.

I don't think it's unfair to say that if Nintendo had gone the same rate they did with the GC, the market would be smaller, the competition much more fierce, and nobody would be making the big bucks that Nintendo currently are.
Especially given both MS and Sonys willingness to literally burn money to try and drive the competitors out.

I'd also put the majority of the blame on the Wiis current software lineup squarely on the shoulders of third party publishers who - for whatever reasons - have deliberately chosen not to support the market leader.

A WiiHD should be capable of resolving third party support problems (well, on the assumption that third party developers just aren't delberately going to fuck nintendo for shits and giggles) and (outside of irrational hatred towards Nintendo) a Nintendo console that has all of the big name third party support with superior versions day and date as PS360 versions, along with Nintendos own titles could not help but be successful.

Really, would anyone seriously argue against that? Especially as it would have first mover advantage for at least 3 years?

 

[Regulus Tera]

You're an ass.

imma go buy the trilogy brb

 

[apana]

I think that depends on how well it does.

You're right, but its pretty hard to see how it does worse than metroid. Its not impossible to predict what the wii audience likes, and Donkey Kong seems to match up well. I'm biased though. :lol

 

[Instro]

Metroid will probably be on ice for a while huh.

 

[BishopLamont]

You're right, but its pretty hard to see how it does worse than metroid. Its not impossible to predict what the wii audience likes, and Donkey Kong seems to match up well. I'm biased though. :lol

Its a catch-22, if DK sells well it makes sense to put them on the sequel, but it might be an even better idea to let them revive one of Nintendo's franchise since they'll have a decent track record in working with any IP that's thrown at them.

That's true, publisher will always prefer Playstation business model ( Sony, MS ) over the NES one ( Nintendo, Sega of old ).
The only way I can see third parties actively support a Nintendo platform is if it is the only viable option to make money.

Its all about multiplatform here on out for third parties, all Nintendo needs for proper support is a decent powered machine that makes ports easy with its competitors.

Metroid will probably be on ice for a while huh.

That depends on how much Nintendo wants to improve the game's status, they should try to revive it at the Wii2's launch.

 

[Ridley327]

The best thing about Dead Rising is the set-up. Zombies in a mall, lots of items, psychos, potential for a crazy story, survivors, action, etc. But the execution in it's current form takes all the potential fun and tells you " well, you have to work for it"

You have basically described that you want Chop 'Til You Drop.

And to think I only mentioned it in jest earlier.

 

[KJ_Wii]

Seriously? You don't understand why some people don't know random details about sales-age?

Geez.

Thanks for clarifying, though.

Isn't this a sales-age thread? (Or what's going to have to pass for one going forward, anyway.) The people posting aren't exactly juniors like myself either. We get the same silly excuses about partial months and "only two days" literally every single month.

Kj_Wii: Ouch.
Nice name btw.

No, it's stupid name that I'm now stuck with. Entered something semi-random (initials and the only console I owned at the time) to be able to set pages to 100, a year later the account was approved and now I can post with it. No sense running from it at this point.

Uh oh, is this the direction the thread is headed in now?

NeonZ opened the door but I'll be happy to drop it. It's not really relevant to the current discussion anyway.

 

[Owzers]

You have basically described that you want Chop 'Til You Drop.

And to think I only mentioned it in jest earlier.

More like a hybrid of the two done WELL perhaps.

 

[Redbeard]

No, they'll buy it for Nintendo software, just as they bought a Wii and NDS for the exclusive software they offered.

So, basically, we're left with the GameCube audience that Nintendo already has on the Wii, with marginal reasons for core gamers to move to the new Wii+ or Wii HD.

The strategy of releasing a Wii more powerful than the PS3/360, at a higher cost than both at the time, is really a recipe for disaster. I don't see them having success on that front whatsoever, especially once rumors of PS4 and Xbox 720 heat up. Has Nintendo ever tried the Dreamcast strategy? They've always been a bit later than everyone else.

What precedent do you have that Nintendo is moving in this direction anyway? Even the 3DS, which does sport slightly better graphics than the PSP, isn't a very competitive piece of graphical technology. What I've seen on other mobile devices is much more impressive.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

...

So, basically, we're left with the GameCube audience that Nintendo already has on the Wii, with marginal reasons for core gamers to move to the new Wii+ or Wii HD.

The strategy of releasing a Wii more powerful than the PS3/360, at a higher cost than both at the time, is really a recipe for disaster. I don't see them having success on that front whatsoever, especially once rumors of PS4 and Xbox 720 heat up. Has Nintendo ever tried the Dreamcast strategy? They've always been a bit later than everyone else.

So why would anyone EVER release a new console if being more powerful at a higher price is a marginal reason to upgrade?

MS and Sony have locked themselves into at least another 3 years before a new console.

Games currently being released are already hitting existing shortcomings with the current generation of hardware - you can literally count on the fingers of one hand the number of retail titles at 1080p 60fps.

This gen started 5 years ago, and historically we would be looking forward to new hardware soon, except that both Sony and MS have invested so much in this gen and playing catch up with the Wii that they are openly stating that they are going to continue extending this gen.

Nintendo have said nothing about their future plans.
Nintendo will make the biggest gains with a new generation of hardware.
With falling Wii sales, Nintendo literally have no reason whatsoever to prolong this generation.

Nintendo are not morons, and they probably understand the games industry better than anyone else currently around.

What precedent do you have that Nintendo is moving in this direction anyway? Even the 3DS, which does sport slightly better graphics than the PSP, isn't a very competitive piece of graphical technology. What I've seen on other mobile devices is much more impressive.

Historical precedent of Nintendo releasing a console more powerful than a competitor?

Well, shit, you got us there. They've obviously never done that before.

 

[apana]

So, basically, we're left with the GameCube audience that Nintendo already has on the Wii, with marginal reasons for core gamers to move to the new Wii+ or Wii HD.

The strategy of releasing a Wii more powerful than the PS3/360, at a higher cost than both at the time, is really a recipe for disaster. I don't see them having success on that front whatsoever, especially once rumors of PS4 and Xbox 720 heat up. Has Nintendo ever tried the Dreamcast strategy? They've always been a bit later than everyone else.

What precedent do you have that Nintendo is moving in this direction anyway? Even the 3DS, which does sport slightly better graphics than the PSP, isn't a very competitive piece of graphical technology. What I've seen on other mobile devices is much more impressive.

A powerful system at 299 with nsmb launch title would sell amazingly well for a year or two, that's enough time to get developers on board. People will go wherever there is good software, nintendo plus third party titles on one system is a strong propisition. If it does launch at 299, that's not too far from the price of the current Wii. Maybe they will add in some gimmick as well. Its pretty crazy to imagine that the Wii succesor is going to have gamecube level sales. Also I'm not sure if what you said about the 3DS is true, but there are others on this forum who can answer that.

 

[Redbeard]

...



So why would anyone EVER release a new console if being more powerful at a higher price is a marginal reason to upgrade?

It has everything to do with audience retention; Microsoft and Sony have amassed a huge audience of core users that are already enjoying the efforts of first and third parties alike. These audiences will be content with their system until there's a major effort from their platform holder of choice.

Nintendo has abandoned this audience this generation, so it's going to be VERY difficult for them to get them back just by baiting slightly more powerful hardware in their face; more powerful hardware is already out there with the PC if that was the only factor involved.

Historical precedent of Nintendo releasing a console more powerful than a competitor?

Well, shit, you got us there. They've obviously never done that before.

Read my post again. I want recent historical precedence that they were the first ones to leap into a generation with new, more powerful hardware. Not that they've never released more powerful hardware than a competitor, though admittedly this hasn't really happened since the N64 days.

 

[Brazil]

Isn't this a sales-age thread? (Or what's going to have to pass for one going forward, anyway.) The people posting aren't exactly juniors like myself either. We get the same silly excuses about partial months and "only two days" literally every single month.

The fact that someone's not a Junior doesn't mean they have ever read through an entire NPD thread to find all the stuff that's posted out. I didn't. In fact, I only came in for the gifs before the changes. :lol

I'm sorry if that was a recurrent mistake, but there was no need to respond to it aggressively like we did it on purpose just to piss people off.

 

[NeonZ]

NeonZ opened the door but I'll be happy to drop it. It's not really relevant to the current discussion anyway.

I tried to be as generic as possible while mentioning the third party issues to avoid this kind of argument.

So, basically, we're left with the GameCube audience that Nintendo already has on the Wii, with marginal reasons for core gamers to move to the new Wii+ or Wii HD.

"Marginal" reasons?

If we're operating under the assumption that the next Nintendo system would be clearly a generation ahead of PS3 and 360, rather than just a limited increase, I don't see "core" gamers being satisfied by clearly limited experiences. Add whatever new software Nintendo could make to reach a large audience to an actually consistent stream of titles from third parties, due to easy ports, which would be clearly superior in that system, and the system could flourish.

The true disaster will happen if they settle for a 360/PS3 level system so many years after their release and whatever main title they have prepared for this console fails to catch on beyond their core fanbase. The market for that system probably would end up smaller than the GameCube's. Even if they succeed with that strategy, it'd just stumble on the same barriers that the Wii eventually met, with support from third parties limited once they start focusing on PS4/Next XBox, killing the system's life prematurely.

Nintendo has abandoned this audience this generation, so it's going to be VERY difficult for them to get them back just by baiting slightly more powerful hardware in their face; more powerful hardware is already out there with the PC if that was the only factor involved.

But most people are speaking here under the assumption that this new hardware would receive support from third parties. Initially up ports from PS3 and 360, later on ports from their successors. So, they'd have the attractive power of a generational leap for a significant time just for themselves in order to build an user base, whose growth would be initiated by their own attractive software and original offers AND a consistent stream of quality software provided by third parties.

The Wii originally had good software rates, however, due to the lack of third party support and the impossibility of continuous hit titles, it couldn't keep that position. If the software is there, the user base will go after it.

 

[szaromir]

Where did I say it sold more on PS3, Wii or 360? You are the one taking conclusions based on the assumption that because of the userbase in the US it's going to sell proportionally more on the 360 and I gave a example of a recent sports game that clearly showed otherwise.

An example is not a trend or a rule. I asked you for data or trends (aka many examples) that could lead us to the assumption that FIFA sales would be even on both platforms.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It has everything to do with audience retention; Microsoft and Sony have amassed a huge audience of core users that are already enjoying the efforts of first and third parties alike. These audiences will be content with their system until there's a major effort from their platform holder of choice.

And are actively squandering the goodwill of those 'core users' by refocussing their efforts on Move and Kinect. Shit, MS have already sold off most of the second party studios that would justify faith in future 'only on xbox' cover stickers.

You're basically saying 'why would anyone buy a 360 when all the REAL gamers already have PS2s'.

Consumers go where the games they want to play are, FUCK this 'core users' and 'casual users' marketing demographic BULLSHIT. It is literally meaningless.

Why don't you explain how the Wii only has 'casuals' by comparing tie ratios to prove how Wii owners don't really buy games and therefore wouldn't be interested while you're at it?

Nintendo has abandoned this audience this generation, so it's going to be VERY difficult for them to get them back just by baiting slightly more powerful hardware in their face; more powerful hardware is already out there with the PC if that was the only factor involved.

Abandoned how?

Have Nintendo stopped making games that are stereotypically 'nintendo buyers' titles?

Have they made fewer games than they used to?

Because I'm looking at a Wii catalogue that over its lifetime includes 2 Zeldas, 2 mainline Mario games, 2 Metroid titles, a Paper Mario, a Punch Out, a Wario Ware, a Smash Bros, a Kirby, some Mario Sports titles, a Donkey Kong platformer, and a handful of new IPs (Excite, Disaster, Wii _____).

Looks a LOT like a normal Nintendo generation in fact.

Read my post again. I want recent historical precedence that they were the first ones to leap into a generation with new, more powerful hardware. Not that they've never released more powerful hardware than a competitor, though admittedly this hasn't really happened since the N64 days.

Many people considered the DS a 'spoiler launch' handheld to combat the PSP.

Many people are aware that the GC was more powerful than the PS2 was.

 

[brain_stew]

So, basically, we're left with the GameCube audience that Nintendo already has on the Wii, with marginal reasons for core gamers to move to the new Wii+ or Wii HD.

The strategy of releasing a Wii more powerful than the PS3/360, at a higher cost than both at the time,

Eh, who said this machine would be more expensive to produce than the PS3? I certainly didn't.

It would use ~2x as much silicon as the PS3, but the board complexity would be way down since its a single chip solution with a 64 bit bus, it would only need 2 RAM chips, not 8 like the PS3 will always have, there'd be no need for a standard mechanical HDD and it would have a lower TDP as well, so cheaper cooling can be used as well. I'd be shocked if it wasn't cheaper to produce than the PS3 at the time, but that doesn't stop it from outperforming it by a very significant distance.

 

[Redbeard]

Eh, who said this machine would be more expensive to produce, than the PS3? I certainly didn't.

It would use ~2x as much silicon as the PS3, but the board complexity would be way down, it would only need 2 RAM chips, not 8, there'd be no need for a standard mechanical HDD and it would have a lower TDP as well, so cheaper cooling can be used as well. I'd be shocked if it wasn't cheaper to produce than the PS3 at the time, but that doesn't stop it from outperforming it by a very significant distance.

So, more expensive RAM, more silicon, more powerful than a PS3 overall, and PS3 doesn't need a mechanical HDD either (they could move to Flash soon for a lower end SKU), yup, it would be more expensive to make. I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest otherwise, especially when PS3, at that time, would have significant cooling and board improvements.

 

[brain_stew]

What precedent do you have that Nintendo is moving in this direction anyway? Even the 3DS, which does sport slightly better graphics than the PSP, i

Please, lets leave ridiculous lies like this out of this debate, OK. The 3DS decimated the PSP in the graphics stakes.

 

[AranhaHunter]

What makes you think that if Nintendo can't come up with some "hook" by late 2011 that they can manage one by 2013?

Has a company ever had two major (successful) hardware releases in the same year?

 

[Sadist]

Q1/Q2 2012 for Power Wii.

 

[brain_stew]

So, more expensive RAM, more silicon, more powerful than a PS3 overall, and PS3 doesn't need a mechanical HDD either (they could move to Flash soon for a lower end SKU), yup, it would be more expensive to make. I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest otherwise, especially when PS3, at that time, would have significant cooling and board improvements.

Sony couldn't move to a single low end flash chip. They have a minimum expected performance standard and a single flash chip doesn't offer that. An SSD like solution that uses multiple flash chips in parallel is what they'd require and that isn't going to be cheap anytime soon. They're stuck with a mechanical HDD on the PS3.

Cheaper RAM you mean. 4 XDR chips + 4 GDDR3 chips is going to be more expensive than two GDDR5 chips. More silicon sure, but only a single die package which reduces costs and the motherboard would be much less complex and that removes probably the single greatest thing that's stoping the PS3 from reaching lower pricepoints. A cheaper cooling solution as well.

PS3 will always have 8 RAM chips. It'll always have two 128 bit memory bus links and it'll probably always have two seperate chips (at least within the Wii 2's launch timeframe). The Wii 2 doesn't have to deal with any of that bloat.


So yes, I'm incredibly confident that Nintendo could produce a console that comfortably outperforms the PS3 in games and yet still costs less to manufacture. It isn't 2005 anymore and technology has moved on, just applying dumb shrinks to an old design isn't going to get you competitive in terms of priceerformance these days.

 

[szaromir]

Has a company ever had two major (successful) hardware releases in the same year?

Gamecube didn't fail because it came out at the same time and that' the only example we have in the console space.