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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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S

SecretDestroyer

Banned
RubxQub said:
Explain thyself!
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You might not like it, I might not like it, and even Obama might not like it, but without Clinton on the ticket the race with McCain is at best going to be close.

Remember that nearly a quarter of the democratic base is made up of former Clinton supporters who are either supporting McCain or are still "undecided." This is the reason why Obama is not crushing McCain right now.
 
S

Shirokun

Member
SecretDestroyer said:
You might not like it, I might not like it, and even Obama might not like it, but without Clinton on the ticket the race with McCain is at best going to be close.

Remember that nearly a quarter of the democratic base are former Clinton supporters who are either supporting McCain or are still "undecided."
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Here's what I don't like about all this talk of Clinton supporters holding so much sway:

Everybody always assumes that she still has a significant number of voters under her wing. Not everybody who voted for Clinton in the primaries is still supporting Clinton unconditionally. I'd be willing to bet that atleast 15 million of those supposed 18 million Clinton voters jumped ship without a whole lot of hesitation. Nobody in the media ever seems to consider this idea.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
You know if Biden does end up being the VP, the Obama campaign has been pretty ingenious about all of this. They've managed to direct the speculation in such a way that we've (media + voters) gone from not caring about Biden to loving him. I think the media in particular would be heartbroken if it wasn't Biden. Very crafty
 
S

SecretDestroyer

Banned
BTW,

IF it turns out to be Clinton, it would be far more strategic to do it this way with the media basically counting her out and then making a big splash than having her be the presumed VP for the past two months and dampening the effect of the announcement.

Strategically, a Clinton VP announcement would be the biggest news out of any of the possibilities, she has the most national support and name recognition out of anyone else on the short list (which is important with announcing so close to the convention), and it would also make "the Clinton show" at the convention a big boon for the Obama campaign, rallying ALL of her supporters behind him.
 
S

SecretDestroyer

Banned
Shirokun said:
Here's what I don't like about all this talk of Clinton supporters holding so much sway:

Everybody always assumes that she still has a significant number of voters under her wing. Not everybody who voted for Clinton in the primaries is still supporting Clinton unconditionally. I'd be willing to bet that atleast 15 million of those supposed 18 million Clinton voters jumped ship without a whole lot of hesitation. Nobody in the media ever seems to consider this idea.
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Umm, there was just a national poll out on wednesday that showed Clinton still has tons of support and in fact would be doing better against McCain than Obama is now.
 
S

SecretDestroyer

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
You know if Biden does end up being the VP, the Obama campaign has been pretty ingenious about all of this. They've managed to direct the speculation in such a way that we've (media + voters) gone from not caring about Biden to loving him. I think the media in particular would be heartbroken if it wasn't Biden. Very crafty
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And a surprise announcement means a LOT more press coverage.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
FFS, the whole China thing from what I saw was saying "Look, China is a shitty country and even they have better public transit so why can't the USA, Greatest Country In The World get its fucking act together?" and it got spun into "lol ur a communist"

edit: HOLY SHIT I GOT A TEXT MESSAGE

oh wait it was from Domino's Pizza, assholes.
 
S

Shirokun

Member
SecretDestroyer said:
Umm, there was just a national poll out on wednesday that showed Clinton still has tons of support and in fact would be doing better against McCain than Obama is now.
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I'm not saying she doesn't have support. I'm saying I do not believe that no Clinton on the Ticket is the deal breaker some are making it out to be.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
SecretDestroyer said:
BTW,

IF it turns out to be Clinton, it would be far more strategic to do it this way with the media basically counting her out and then making a big splash than having her be the presumed VP for the past two months and dampening the effect of the announcement.

Strategically, a Clinton VP announcement would be the biggest news out of any of the possibilities, she has the most national support and name recognition out of anyone else on the short list (which is important with announcing so close to the convention), and it would also make "the Clinton show" at the convention a big boon for the Obama campaign, rallying ALL of her supporters behind him.
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I have to agree with 538 that since the announcement is so late the VP is likely a known person (Biden or Clinton). I haven't seen anything to suggest Clinton will be the VP, or that she was even vetted at all.

SecretDestroyer said:
Umm, there was just a national poll out on wednesday that showed Clinton still has tons of support and in fact would be doing better against McCain than Obama is now.
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While I agree with you that Clinton still has tons of support you really shouldn't compare how Obama is doing against McCain to how Clinton would theoritically be doing against McCain. Since Clinton isn't being attacked of course her rating would be higher.
 
O

Outcast2004

Banned
SecretDestroyer said:
You might not like it, I might not like it, and even Obama might not like it, but without Clinton on the ticket the race with McCain is at best going to be close.

Remember that nearly a quarter of the democratic base is made up of former Clinton supporters who are either supporting McCain or are still "undecided." This is the reason why Obama is not crushing McCain right now.
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This is pretty much it.

An Obama/Clinton ticket is pretty much a sure-fire win. Granted, they dont seem to like each other much. But at this point, who cares? The Vice's job is to essentially wait for the pres to die.

Either you want it or you dont.
 
V

VALIS

Member
The thought occurred to me earlier in the week and it seems even more likely now as the day moves on... anyone think this "VP announcement imminent" is just the Obama camp stirring up hype and demand for an announcement they didn't plan on making until next week anyway? Why would you release some of the biggest news of your campaign on a Friday, especially late on Friday? This is where you put bad news to get fluffed over and forgotten as people and press start on their weekends. This is where you put news you want to die. This is where the Clinton campaign used to schedule their apologies (Bobby Kennedy, etc.). The Obama campaign seems far too media savvy for this.

Unless they think the announcement is not going to be met with a ton of enthusiasm, like Chet Edwards or Sebelius (or maybe even Bayh), then you'd want to keep it out of the media's spotlight for a while.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
GhaleonEB said:
New Obama ad, running with the house/out of touch/less than $5m is middle class bit. Pretty harsh.
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Well, also a bit disengenuous. afaik, McCain never said he "can't even remember anymore." Unless that's a sourced, direct quote, I wish they (both sides) would leave that kind of paraphrasing out of it. The facts are harsh enough.
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
SecretDestroyer said:
Umm, there was just a national poll out on wednesday that showed Clinton still has tons of support and in fact would be doing better against McCain than Obama is now.
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I still think my point from earlier today stands:

Captain Pants said:
Hillary would make things too easy for the McCain campaign when it comes to attack ads. If she was his VP nom, you know they'd just recycle all of her old soundbytes about Obama for their attack ads. "Obama's own VP thinks he's unfit to lead..." "Obama's own VP doesn't know if he's a muslim or not..." "Obama's own VP doesn't think the guy knows how to pick up a phone..." It would be a mess.
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How would they do damage control on ads like that?
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
VALIS said:
The thought occurred to me earlier in the week and it seems even more likely now as the day moves on... anyone think this "VP announcement imminent" is just the Obama camp stirring up hype and demand for an announcement they didn't plan on making until next week anyway? Why would you release some of the biggest news of your campaign on a Friday, especially late on Friday? This is where you put bad news to get fluffed over and forgotten as people and press start on their weekends. This is where you put news you want to die. This is where the Clinton campaign used to schedule their apologies (Bobby Kennedy, etc.). The Obama campaign seems far too media savvy for this.

Unless they think the announcement is not going to be met with a ton of enthusiasm, like Chet Edwards or Sebelius (or maybe even Bayh), then you'd want to keep it out of the media's spotlight for a while.
Click to expand...

Obama is supposely going to be with his VP tomorrow in Springfield. So...
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
VALIS said:
The thought occurred to me earlier in the week and it seems even more likely now as the day moves on... anyone think this "VP announcement imminent" is just the Obama camp stirring up hype and demand for an announcement they didn't plan on making until next week anyway? Why would you release some of the biggest news of your campaign on a Friday, especially late on Friday? This is where you put bad news to get fluffed over and forgotten as people and press start on their weekends. This is where you put news you want to die. This is where the Clinton campaign used to schedule their apologies (Bobby Kennedy, etc.). The Obama campaign seems far too media savvy for this.

Unless they think the announcement is not going to be met with a ton of enthusiasm, like Chet Edwards or Sebelius (or maybe even Bayh), then you'd want to keep it out of the media's spotlight for a while.
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It's in effort to leave no room in the media for John McCain over this last week. Anouncing so late in the week means they controlled the media message all of this week and will carry them straight through into the convention.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
adamsappel said:
Well, also a bit disengenuous. afaik, McCain never said he "can't even remember anymore." Unless that's a sourced, direct quote, I wish they (both sides) would leave that kind of paraphrasing out of it. The facts are harsh enough.
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To paraphrase again, he didn't know and said, "I will have to get my staff to get back to you on that."

The paraphrasing is shorthand. He didn't know. He didn't know how many houses he owns. No matter what the reason, not knowing how many homes you own is significant in an ergument about elitism.
 
S

siamesedreamer

Banned
laserbeam said:
Obama is pointing to Olympic venue areas saying his line.
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china_olympics.jpg
 
S

Skiptastic

Member
Captain Pants said:
How would they do damage control on ads like that?
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Ask Reagan/Bush 1980. That was a pretty brutal primary and they came together and won pretty handily.

OuterWorldVoice said:
The paraphrasing is shorthand. He didn't know. He didn't know how many houses he owns. No matter what the reason, not knowing how many homes you own is significant in an argument about elitism.
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What's worse: saying "I'll get back to you" or, if you aren't sure whether you have six or seven houses, sitting there counting them all out? I'd just get past that question as quickly as I possibly could, elitist or not.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Skiptastic said:
Ask Reagan/Bush 1980. That was a pretty brutal primary and they came together and won pretty handily.
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It was easier to get people to forget about stuff back then because Al Gore had not yet invented the internets.
 
K

kkaabboomm

Member
i dont care what has been said in this thread since i checked this morning. i'm sorry, but after spending all day in law school orientation, only to find out the VP pick of Obama STILL HAS NOT BEEN ANNOUNCED, i am officially anxious. and 100% impressed they've managed to keep it a secret up until now. if they are holding out until a reveal tomorrow at noon, and can actually manage to pull that off, i will be 100% more impressed.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
laserbeam said:
The Whole point is not genuine. Obama is pointing to Olympic venue areas saying his line. China isnt doing that everywhere and hell hidden behind Olympic Advertisement walls in Beijing you can still find the real Beijing.

He is pointing out a false reality as if it was real.

Our infrastructure is lacking for sure but to point at Beijing and act as if they are a guiding example is a joke.
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I think he's more comparing their increase from what they used to be like and what they are today.

Hell I think they are number 2 or 3 in the world when it comes to Rail transportation. That just wasn't the case 30 years ago.
 
H

Hootie

Member
Just got back from some volunteer work at my library, and WTF. WHEN is Obama going to announce this shit? I mean at this point with all of this suspense and hype it better NOT be Biden because everybody would be like "Oh, cool...I guess". We need a huge surprise.
CLARK PLEASE
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Hootie said:
Just got back from some volunteer work at my library, and WTF. WHEN is Obama going to announce this shit? I mean at this point with all of this suspense and hype it better NOT be Biden because everybody would be like "Oh, cool...I guess". We need a huge surprise.
CLARK PLEASE
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Patience is a virtue.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHEN IS HE GOING TO ANNOUNCE?!??!?!?!?!?
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
mckmas8808 said:
DUDE! That's exactly what Obama did with the 2nd Olympics ad that's been playing for the last 2 weeks.


He had the words displayed on the ad as people were LITERALLY performing the jobs that he was talking about that he wanted to create.

How much more dummy proof do you want him to be?
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That's the ad I was talking about.

I WANT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF THESE ADS

Constantly playing throughout the day to hammer in the fact that Obama has substance.

---

Ok, fellas, seriously? This whole China debate is ridiculous. Obama's just pointing to China and saying "If they can do it, so can we!" He's not saying "Let's be exactly like China, implement their techniques, and displace thousands of people."

By the way, Beijing's public transportation is awesome. I wish we had something remotely close to it here in Miami.

SD, the image you posted is kind of funny, if only because it reminds me of the GOP stance towards Iraq. I know, I know, doesn't have anything to do with the discussion.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
StopMakingSense said:
With all the hype and speculation and utter secrecy, I can only assume the veep will be Steve Jobs.
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Obama at a campaign event:

"And that's why I want to be your president."

*cheers, applause, Obama begins to walk off stage*

*Obama comes back*

"Oh, and one more thing. Everybody, check your phones."
 
H

Hootie

Member
ZealousD said:
Obama at a campaign event:

"And that's why I want to be your president."

*cheers, applause, Obama begins to walk off stage*

*Obama comes back*

"Oh, and one more thing. Everybody, check your phones."
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Halo 4 annoucement? Now THAT would be a surprise.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
This post on kos is pretty hilarious:

Having the occasion to be at home today rather than at work (the result of an unfortunate but hopefully quickly-remedied back injury), for the first time in quite a while, I'm tuned into daytime cable news.

Flipping between CNN and MSNBC (and gliding only momentarily over Fox News Noise just for giggles), it's clear that the media are churning themselves into a hyperventilating frenzy over who will be Barack Obama's running mate.

It's fascinating how the Villagers on cable news are absolutely freaking out. I flip to CNN, where a perky Kyra Phillps leads in to "political expert" Bill Schneider for an update. Schneider blurts out with frustration what has been echoed by pundits across the channels all morning: they keep saying "I don't know" and "it's anybody's guess" and "I wish there was some insider information I could give you, but...." Schneider and other are pressed for any hints, any indication of who He or She will be, and the pundits keep coming up dry.

It's beautiful.

In one fell swoop, by choosing to disclose his vice-presidential pick directly to voters through text messaging rather than revealing his pick through choice leaks to the press, the Obama camp has given us a momentary reprieve from having to watch smirk-faced pundits gloat about "inside scoops" and "my sources tell me." No "scoops" for the Villagers, followed by anti-climactic press conferences to the people as an afterthought. No "special access" to them, no matter how much they clamor. Technology has allowed the Obama camp to keep all, reporter and regular citizen alike, on the edge of their seats.

For today, the talking heads are absolutely powerless and impotent, staring stupidly at the screen, searching for words to make themselves relevant. For once, they finally feel what we have known all along --that they have absolutely nothing to offer outside of what is selectively hand fed to them.

With all this baseless VP speculation, with their special status and access stripped away, the "insiders" are exactly where we are, inside the cone of silence huddled together in unawareness, exuding palpable excitement, and waiting for what will now be truly breaking news for all but a select few in Obama's circle. Welcome, Villagers, to the land of the regular. I know it's unfamiliar territory, but enjoy your stay. I know I certainly will.
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Hootie said:
Halo 4 annoucement? Now THAT would be a surprise.
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
A

adamsappel

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
To paraphrase again, he didn't know and said, "I will have to get my staff to get back to you on that."

The paraphrasing is shorthand. He didn't know. He didn't know how many houses he owns. No matter what the reason, not knowing how many homes you own is significant in an ergument about elitism.
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Oh, I believe McCain didn't know the exact number. He started added them up in his head and probably both couldn't remember all of them and realized how big that number actually was going to be. But "can't even remember anymore" carries with it that little touch of Alzheimer's. Smart insinuation, but I think McCain's direct quote is damning enough.
 
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