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[schuelma]

and so the answer to SD's point is that we should all participate in a race to the bottom, where the US shouldn't improve its infrastructure, transportation or energy policy because of China.

...yeah...

My only point is that it's not nearly as easy as saying "Look what China is doing- let's do that"

 

[siamesedreamer]

That strikes me as a poor choice.

Choice? Looks like Leach is just talking on his own.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

He's talking about upgrading the infrastructure in America. He often talks about globalization and rising competition to the US. China is investing a lot of money in its infrastructure while the opposite is happening in the US. What he's saying is that he's going to invest in infrastructure. That's it. Do you see him urging 'almost slave labor' as you put it? No? Then STFU.

And something else had to give for them to spend that kind of money on infrastructure. As I said, I'm all for it. I can't wait for the technological revolution in our infrastructure.

 

[StoOgE]

So, um. McCain has the guy who hosted "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" defending him.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/08/robin-leach-on.html

That strikes me as a poor choice.

That wasn't his point, at all. He's talking about transporation infastructure. You are talking about something completely different. But you know that.

I dont think McCain sent him out, I think the call was solicited by the LA times. But yeah, not the guy you want talking out in your defense.

 

[TDG]

On that note, again from fivethirtyeight:


He goes on to talk about the polling data showing the relative public recognition of the made-up short lists.

Rolling out a relative unknown this close to the convention would lead to a lot of head scratching. It feels like Obama is ramping up to announce a known character, so everyone bursts forth with approval at the last minute. And the medium - a text message - would lead to a whole lot of people going, "Who?!" if it wasn't someone they knew. Especially if it were Chet Edwards. Imagine the mass-confustion if people just saw "Edwards" on the text message and ran with it. :lol

It is worth noting that to most people, most normal people (non-PoliGAFers), Kaine, Sebelius, and Bayh are all fairly unknown.

 

[The Librarian]

CNN=POLITICS

 

[schuelma]

It is worth noting that to most people, most normal people (non-PoliGAFers), Kaine, Sebelius, and Bayh are all fairly unknown.

Yeah. I'd say it has to be Biden. Probably his best choice.

 

[laserbeam]

The China comment has to be a joke. No shit Beijing is looking pretty nice right now. Pretty much every city that gets to host the olympics gets a makeover around the olympic venues.

Nevermind the fact countless numbers of Chinese were forced out of their homes to see them destroyed etc to make way for this "awesome" beijing and once you look behind walls you see Beijing isnt like the Olympic Venue areas.

 

[polyh3dron]

Already, China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years in the broadest industrialization ever. Every week to 10 days, another coal-fired power plant opens somewhere in China that is big enough to serve all the households in Dallas or San Diego.

--- New York Times


All the mass transit in the world won't negate the facts.

Oh wow.

Deflection 101 class is in session.

 

[scorcho]

My only point is that it's not nearly as easy as saying "Look what China is doing- let's do that"

he's not saying that we should invest using the exact same system - he is making the larger point that China's growth is allowing them to modernize and improve their infrastructure, something that the US should follow suit with. i don't see the uproar in this.

and to your point directly - why can't we do that? our GDP dwarfs China's, meaning we have the resources to do whatever we want.

 

[siamesedreamer]

conservative talking points defense force! ready for action!

Facts = Conservative talking points?

Mass transit is extremely expensive in the US and there's a huge NIMBY element. NIMBY isn't a problem though in China because the Gubment can do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[maynerd]

Facts = Conservative talking points?

Mass transit is extremely expensive in the US and there's a huge NIMBY element. NIMBY isn't a problem though in China because the Gubment can do whatever the fuck they want.

Did you learn this from watching your 10 hours of tv a day?

Ever heard of Eminent domain?

 

[schuelma]

and to your point directly - why can't we do that? our GDP dwarfs China's, meaning we have the resources to do whatever we want.

Because the U.S government can't just "do whatever we want". It's not nearly that easy.

 

[maximum360]

My only point is that it's not nearly as easy as saying "Look what China is doing- let's do that"

I can see Lou Dobbs running with this for the entire hour. Taken entirely out of context, this is an Obama bash fest on Lou Dobbs show waiting to happen.

 

[GhaleonEB]

New Obama ad, running with the house/out of touch/less than $5m is middle class bit. Pretty harsh.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_Out_of_Touch.html?showall

The image of McCain driving around in the golf cart with Bush Sr. is gold.

 

[scorcho]

Because the U.S government can't just "do whatever we want". It's not nearly that easy.

i assure you it's not easy for the Chinese government easier. but my point still stands, if we have the resources to plow hundreds of billions of dollars into the military and hundreds more into Iraq we could stand to spend a bit more here.

false outrage is fun.

 

[schuelma]

Ever heard of Eminent domain?

:lol :lol

Yup, no controversy or legal issues there. I fully expect the Obama administration and the dem Congress to start this overhaul early next year all through the magical powers of EMINENT DOMAIN.

 

[polyh3dron]

Choice? Looks like Leach is just talking on his own.

Your point? Robin Leach is defending McCain forgetting how many houses he owns because he can relate to his struggle. The FUCKING HOST OF LIFESTYLES OF THE RICH AND FAMOUS can relate to his woes.

If they can link Louis Farrakhan to Obama(lol), this sure as hell is fair game.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Your point? Robin Leach is defending McCain forgetting how many houses he owns because he can relate to his struggle. The FUCKING HOST OF LIFESTYLES OF THE RICH AND FAMOUS can relate to his woes.

If they can link Louis Farrakhan to Obama(lol), this sure as hell is fair game.

And to be fair, I mis-read his intro in the article and thought he was speaking for the campaign, not about them. My bad. Still amusing, but not what I had originally thought.

 

[schuelma]

And to be fair, I mis-read his intro in the article and thought he was speaking for the campaign, not about them. My bad. Still amusing, but not what I had originally thought.

If the McCain campaign had Robin Leach as a surrogate they should be automatically DQed.

 

[maynerd]

:lol :lol

Yup, no controversy or legal issues there. I fully expect the Obama administration and the dem Congress to start this overhaul early next year all through the magical powers of EMINENT DOMAIN.

I was addressing his statement about NIMBY.

 

[Macam]

Every other time I step in this thread, I wonder what the hell is going on. China? ...really?

 

[VanMardigan]

I was addressing his statement about NIMBY.

It can't be solved with eminent domain, that's the point. There are only very specific instances where politicians would bother, so it's irrelevant to apply it to the infrastructure issue.

New Obama ad, running with the house/out of touch/less than $5m is middle class bit. Pretty harsh.

Very effective ad imo. I don't personally like the Saddleback quote, since it's disingenuous, but that's politics. Obama really has no choice now.

 

[pxleyes]

New Obama ad, running with the house/out of touch/less than $5m is middle class bit. Pretty harsh.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_Out_of_Touch.html?showall

The image of McCain driving around in the golf cart with Bush Sr. is gold.

:lol Perfect

 

[TDG]

Yeah. I'd say it has to be Biden. Probably his best choice.

Well, my point was that IF you buy into the idea they are announcing so close to the convention because the person is not a heavy hitter, then it's important to remember that to most people, Kaine, Bayh and Sebelius are not heavy hitters, so we shouldn't neccesarily rule them out.

 

[The Librarian]

Reposted for great justice.

Badass Biden.

 

[maynerd]

It can't be solved with eminent domain, that's the point. There are only very specific instances where politicians would bother, so it's irrelevant to apply it to the infrastructure issue.

If the government decides they want to implement some sort of mass transit in a city and the land they need is currently owned by a private citizen wouldn't they use ED to get that land? Please correct my understanding.

 

[jobber]

the iso cam feed of the governor's mansion in Virginia on CNN.com

the convo going on between the camera man and some random guy is awesome
cursing and talking shit

I'm going to walk up that way in a few

:lol I told the guy I could hear him yappin on the feed and he pulled the plug

When I was walking about to my office, it was 4 cameras camped on the lawn. I don't know why tho. Kaine isn't even there.

bigger pic of the "madness"
http://i36.tinypic.com/ajqno2.jpg

 

[Karish]

Reposted for great justice.

Badass Biden.

Awesome

 

[RubxQub]

Reposted for great justice.

Badass Biden.

What does this clip of Biden make you feel?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSMS85bo4WM

 

[schuelma]

If the government decides they want to implement some sort of mass transit in a city and the land they need is currently owned by a private citizen wouldn't they use ED to get that land? Please correct my understanding.

From a practical standpoint, it is rarely that simple. Just a little example from my own personal experience. My Mom is a mayor of a small town and the city council was looking into expanding or relocating the current, tiny airport.The city attorney casually mentioned eminent domain could be used. Total shitstorm. While legally the city could have done it, the reality was that my mom and the council members would have kissed re-election goodbye. Eminent domain is not popular especially since Kelo and while the government might eventually win, it would still be significantly harder than in places where the government can just do what they want without any fear of losing their positions.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Very effective ad imo. I don't personally like the Saddleback quote, since it's disingenuous, but that's politics. Obama really has no choice now.

I was wondering about that. I know McCain was saying over $5m was rich, but not necessarily under $5m is middle-class. I just went looking for the exact wording of the question:

Ok, on taxes, define "rich." Everybody talks about taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point - give me a number, give me a specific number - where do you move from middle class to rich?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/16/se.02.html

I think it's fair to say McCain's answer of $5m is defining less than that as middle class, given the framing of the question. It's getting deep into mudslinging territory though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Because the U.S government can't just "do whatever we want". It's not nearly that easy.

You guys are being purposely stupid now. So basically you "conservative" guys believe that we (America) can't make mass transit one of our main priorities? Why?

Do you guys also support the war in Iraq? Do you support the money we are spending there?

 

[schuelma]

You guys are being purposely stupid now. So basically you "conservative" guys believe that we (America) can't make mass transit one of our main priorities? Why?

Do you guys also support the war in Iraq? Do you support the money we are spending there?

Now you're intentionally putting words into my mouth. I NEVER said mass transit shouldn't be a priority. Not once. I think it should be. I fucking love mass transit. My only point, as I said repeatedly, is that it's not as easy as pointing to China and saying let's do that. It will be significantly harder for the U.S government to do what China is doing. That's all.

 

[polyh3dron]

Very effective ad imo. I don't personally like the Saddleback quote, since it's disingenuous, but that's politics. Obama really has no choice now.

McCain and the GOP have been firing off disingenuous bullshit about Obama since the primaries and they've laughed it off as having a sense of humor. McCain getting a taste of his own medicine is long overdue.

 

[maynerd]

From a practical standpoint, it is rarely that simple. Just a little example from my own personal experience. My Mom is a mayor of a small town and the city council was looking into expanding or relocating the current, tiny airport.The city attorney casually mentioned eminent domain could be used. Total shitstorm. While legally the city could have done it, the reality was that my mom and the council members would have kissed re-election goodbye. Eminent domain is not popular especially since Kelo and while the government might eventually win, it would still be significantly harder than in places where the government can just do what they want without any fear of losing their positions.

Well I don't think I said it was 'simple'. I'm saying that if we want to do it as a society and we have the money to do it, a few NIMBY people won't be able to stop it because we have ED. If most people are for it then using ED probably won't lose an election for that person.

 

[siamesedreamer]

I was addressing his statement about NIMBY.

So were the residents of Gwinnett County.

Voting happens before eminent domain.

 

[schuelma]

Well I don't think I said it was 'simple'. I'm saying that if we want to do it as a society and we have the money to do it, a few NIMBY people won't be able to stop it because we have ED. If most people are for it then using ED probably won't lose an election for that person.

And I'm saying that taking people's homes away from them for a future promise of mass transit isn't going to fly with much of the country anytime soon.

 

[SecretDestroyer]

Please be Clinton.
Please be Clinton.
Please be Clinton.



Please

 

[RubxQub]

Please be Clinton.
Please be Clinton.
Please be Clinton.

Please

Explain thyself!

 

[siamesedreamer]

If the government decides they want to implement some sort of mass transit in a city and the land they need is currently owned by a private citizen wouldn't they use ED to get that land? Please correct my understanding.

LOLz...yeah

 

[Captain Pants]

Explain thyself!

SecretDestroyer
Member
(Today, 12:25 PM)
Reply | Quote

 

[ratcliffja]

Explain thyself!

(neutral) SecretDestroyer
Member
(Today, 06:25 PM)
Reply | Quote


I think that about explains it.

Edit: Wow.

 

[mckmas8808]

Now you're intentionally putting words into my mouth. I NEVER said mass transit shouldn't be a priority. Not once. I think it should be. I fucking love mass transit. My only point, as I said repeatedly, is that it's not as easy as pointing to China and saying let's do that. It will be significantly harder for the U.S government to do what China is doing. That's all.

Serious question man! Do you honestly freaking think that's all Obama is going to do?! If President you think all Obama is going to do is say "be like China" and POOF it will happen?

You don't think he has a plan to make it happen?

 

[Captain Pants]

Edit: Wow.

That was a close one.

 

[maynerd]

So were the residents of Gwinnett County.

Voting happens before eminent domain.

And if the people vote for it?

And I'm saying that taking people's homes away from them for a future promise of mass transit isn't going to fly with much of the country anytime soon.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. In time people will wise up.

 

[schuelma]

Serious question man! Do you honestly freaking think that's all Obama is going to do?! If President you think all Obama is going to do is say "be like China" and POOF it will happen?

You don't think he has a plan to make it happen?

Of course not- but his statement "look at China" strikes me as a bit misleading and makes it sound easier than it will be. That's it. Now I remember why I don't post in this thread :lol

 

[The Librarian]

Please don't be Clinton.
Please don't be Clinton.
Please don't be Clinton.



Please

Fixed. It won't be Clinton.

 

[scorcho]

Now you're intentionally putting words into my mouth. I NEVER said mass transit shouldn't be a priority. Not once. I think it should be. I fucking love mass transit. My only point, as I said repeatedly, is that it's not as easy as pointing to China and saying let's do that. It will be significantly harder for the U.S government to do what China is doing. That's all.

no one said it would be easy, just that it should be done.

 

[laserbeam]

Serious question man! Do you honestly freaking think that's all Obama is going to do?! If President you think all Obama is going to do is say "be like China" and POOF it will happen?

You don't think he has a plan to make it happen?

The Whole point is not genuine. Obama is pointing to Olympic venue areas saying his line. China isnt doing that everywhere and hell hidden behind Olympic Advertisement walls in Beijing you can still find the real Beijing.

He is pointing out a false reality as if it was real.

Our infrastructure is lacking for sure but to point at Beijing and act as if they are a guiding example is a joke.